Next I'll jumper the aux fan. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? It won't be optimal, though. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. 1) Warm Air From Vents. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. hardly noticable. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. of refrigerant insulation tape. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. R12 Expansion Valve with R134A charge? - Maverick is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Bookmarks: Digg; del . R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air gital control scheme. Bookmarks: Digg; del . The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. Look at where the lines will end up. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. Helical and Serpentine coils. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. Can I use the one for the R-12? And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. 3 ounces? Moreso, it had been banned. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. The evap is hard to get at. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. B. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. $21 . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Related products. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. 5. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Jun 17, 2011. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. Any advice appreciated. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. 5. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. I think the way to go here is1. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. Any ideas from the info above? However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. . ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. R-12 vs R-134a Hose - Pelican Parts Forums At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. R134a. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. This is the part that controls the system pressures. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. #13. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. This is because R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. . Its cylinders are colored white. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. For R12, its mineral oil. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Very nice! R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. The difference really shows up on the high side. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. I mean, really a lot. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. They have no moving parts. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. Jun 19, 2007. 5. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? Compressor. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. That's a lot isn't it? As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. PDF COMPARISON OF Rl34a AND R12 REFRIGERANTS IN A VAPOUR - AIVC With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. had writing on the side that said R134a. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. 5) A/C System Failure. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? maintain the A/C of older cars. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. Expansion Valve. Thanks again. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. . R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type.